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	<title>Comments for Feministing @ uottawa</title>
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	<link>http://feministinguottawa.wordpress.com</link>
	<description>the local feministing blog</description>
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		<title>Comment on Ms. Understood? The F-word. by jamie</title>
		<link>http://feministinguottawa.wordpress.com/2008/09/19/ms-understood-the-f-word/#comment-28</link>
		<dc:creator>jamie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Mar 2009 12:33:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://feministinguottawa.wordpress.com/?p=69#comment-28</guid>
		<description>i guess the granola-dykes were people too, right? each with their own values and unique perspective and personal story to tell, whether that was burning a bra or mebbe choosing not to...as tempting as it is to see modern feminism as more decidedly individual-based, there remains a fine balance between articulating a collective senibility versus the power and nuance of the solo voice...it is the strength of our individual stories - and making room for real diversity and tolerance within our ranks - that is the only way to stay relevant and on message.
jamie
hey, i&#039;m a guy, so what do i know? 
&#039;first-time caller&#039;, nice site...thanks
j</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i guess the granola-dykes were people too, right? each with their own values and unique perspective and personal story to tell, whether that was burning a bra or mebbe choosing not to&#8230;as tempting as it is to see modern feminism as more decidedly individual-based, there remains a fine balance between articulating a collective senibility versus the power and nuance of the solo voice&#8230;it is the strength of our individual stories &#8211; and making room for real diversity and tolerance within our ranks &#8211; that is the only way to stay relevant and on message.<br />
jamie<br />
hey, i&#8217;m a guy, so what do i know?<br />
&#8216;first-time caller&#8217;, nice site&#8230;thanks<br />
j</p>
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		<title>Comment on Fear of Feminism by flookie</title>
		<link>http://feministinguottawa.wordpress.com/2008/10/27/fear-of-feminism/#comment-23</link>
		<dc:creator>flookie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 04:58:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://feministinguottawa.wordpress.com/?p=71#comment-23</guid>
		<description>&quot;I would say anything or do anything for a pat on the head from the patriarchy. I wasn’t “like other girls.”&quot;


Well put. i also participated in patriarchy and got my pats on the head for &quot;not being like other girls&quot;.

Sometimes i even get asked where are all the smart girls are, or why girls are so dumb. 

good article</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I would say anything or do anything for a pat on the head from the patriarchy. I wasn’t “like other girls.”&#8221;</p>
<p>Well put. i also participated in patriarchy and got my pats on the head for &#8220;not being like other girls&#8221;.</p>
<p>Sometimes i even get asked where are all the smart girls are, or why girls are so dumb. </p>
<p>good article</p>
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		<title>Comment on racism and patriarchy by Deika</title>
		<link>http://feministinguottawa.wordpress.com/racism-and-patriarchy/#comment-22</link>
		<dc:creator>Deika</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Nov 2008 04:46:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://feministinguottawa.wordpress.com/?page_id=9#comment-22</guid>
		<description>I would love to write a long article on racism and feminism. If I may suggest a great book of essays, you all should read:

&quot;All women are white, are blacks are men, but some of us are brave&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would love to write a long article on racism and feminism. If I may suggest a great book of essays, you all should read:</p>
<p>&#8220;All women are white, are blacks are men, but some of us are brave&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>Comment on I don&#8217;t care if you are pro-choice, guy. by Being Amber Rhea &#187; Blog Archive &#187; links for 2008-09-25</title>
		<link>http://feministinguottawa.wordpress.com/i-dont-care-if-you-are-pro-choice-guy/#comment-21</link>
		<dc:creator>Being Amber Rhea &#187; Blog Archive &#187; links for 2008-09-25</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Sep 2008 21:20:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://feministinguottawa.wordpress.com/?page_id=62#comment-21</guid>
		<description>[...] I don’t care if you are pro-choice, guy. « Feministing @ uottawa &quot;Listen: i really do not care much at all if you are a pro-choice fella. Because currently, all that means is that you think I should have a right to choose what happens to my body. To me, that’s a bit of a no-brainer. To act as if it’s really a brave, anti-oppressive opinion though, Pffft. Get over yourself.&quot; (tags: reproductivejustice choice feminism women men) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I don’t care if you are pro-choice, guy. « Feministing @ uottawa &quot;Listen: i really do not care much at all if you are a pro-choice fella. Because currently, all that means is that you think I should have a right to choose what happens to my body. To me, that’s a bit of a no-brainer. To act as if it’s really a brave, anti-oppressive opinion though, Pffft. Get over yourself.&quot; (tags: reproductivejustice choice feminism women men) [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on I don&#8217;t care if you are pro-choice, guy. by Being Amber Rhea &#187; Blog Archive &#187; links for 2008-9-25</title>
		<link>http://feministinguottawa.wordpress.com/i-dont-care-if-you-are-pro-choice-guy/#comment-20</link>
		<dc:creator>Being Amber Rhea &#187; Blog Archive &#187; links for 2008-9-25</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Sep 2008 14:26:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://feministinguottawa.wordpress.com/?page_id=62#comment-20</guid>
		<description>[...] I don’t care if you are pro-choice, guy. « Feministing @ uottawa &#8220;Listen: i really do not care much at all if you are a pro-choice fella. Because currently, all that means is that you think I should have a right to choose what happens to my body. To me, that’s a bit of a no-brainer. To act as if it’s really a brave, anti-oppressive opinion though, Pffft. Get over yourself.&#8221; (tags: reproductivejustice choice feminism women men) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I don’t care if you are pro-choice, guy. « Feministing @ uottawa &#8220;Listen: i really do not care much at all if you are a pro-choice fella. Because currently, all that means is that you think I should have a right to choose what happens to my body. To me, that’s a bit of a no-brainer. To act as if it’s really a brave, anti-oppressive opinion though, Pffft. Get over yourself.&#8221; (tags: reproductivejustice choice feminism women men) [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Ms. Understood? The F-word. by flookie</title>
		<link>http://feministinguottawa.wordpress.com/2008/09/19/ms-understood-the-f-word/#comment-19</link>
		<dc:creator>flookie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2008 02:25:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://feministinguottawa.wordpress.com/?p=69#comment-19</guid>
		<description>someone want to post that comment as a new post?

see, now, i do have a problem with the discussion of the &#039;stigma&#039; of feminism and the tendency to reproduce the stereotype by denying the stereotype.

when feminists of a certain flavour adamantly state that they are not dykey, hairy, bra-burning granolas, it is the new rejection of that identity. 

 in an attempt to feign diversity in the movement, the hairy granola feminists are constantly denigrated by women whose only way of stipulating their feminism is through the denigration of that feminist. i think thats unfair. i dont shave my legs. the next &#039;next&#039; stigma will be, im not a high-femme feminist, i dont talk about not burning bras, i dont love to disclose that i do or do not shave... you see where im going?

like, why is the conversation even about ones appearance? isnt that the internalization of the gaze? why is the burden of qualifying my feminism on how i perceive and interact/alter my body? 

why are we still being confessional about our bodies when we are trying to talk about the issues on the stands?

ideally it wouldnt be about whether you do or do not shave, or whether you are high femme and love bras or butchie and hate bras, it would be about the contents of our minds, our ideas, what we do in our spare time, and not confessional talks about how we treat our bodies.

thats just the ole two cents. i personally feel a bit attacked when granola feminists are used as a metaphor for the old feminists, and i dont know why we allow the conversations to revolve around being confessional revelations about bodies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>someone want to post that comment as a new post?</p>
<p>see, now, i do have a problem with the discussion of the &#8217;stigma&#8217; of feminism and the tendency to reproduce the stereotype by denying the stereotype.</p>
<p>when feminists of a certain flavour adamantly state that they are not dykey, hairy, bra-burning granolas, it is the new rejection of that identity. </p>
<p> in an attempt to feign diversity in the movement, the hairy granola feminists are constantly denigrated by women whose only way of stipulating their feminism is through the denigration of that feminist. i think thats unfair. i dont shave my legs. the next &#8216;next&#8217; stigma will be, im not a high-femme feminist, i dont talk about not burning bras, i dont love to disclose that i do or do not shave&#8230; you see where im going?</p>
<p>like, why is the conversation even about ones appearance? isnt that the internalization of the gaze? why is the burden of qualifying my feminism on how i perceive and interact/alter my body? </p>
<p>why are we still being confessional about our bodies when we are trying to talk about the issues on the stands?</p>
<p>ideally it wouldnt be about whether you do or do not shave, or whether you are high femme and love bras or butchie and hate bras, it would be about the contents of our minds, our ideas, what we do in our spare time, and not confessional talks about how we treat our bodies.</p>
<p>thats just the ole two cents. i personally feel a bit attacked when granola feminists are used as a metaphor for the old feminists, and i dont know why we allow the conversations to revolve around being confessional revelations about bodies.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Ms. Understood? The F-word. by Marie Starr</title>
		<link>http://feministinguottawa.wordpress.com/2008/09/19/ms-understood-the-f-word/#comment-18</link>
		<dc:creator>Marie Starr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Sep 2008 16:21:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://feministinguottawa.wordpress.com/?p=69#comment-18</guid>
		<description>As far as I can see, we’re stuck ... the propaganda created &amp; updated to keep both men and women invested in the stereotypical idea that all feminists are angry, man-hating, bra-burning dykes keeps the whole issue of equality polarized, maintaining the &quot;us&quot; or &quot;them&quot; paradigm we humans hate to admit to, but still invest in so heavily. 

The Women&#039;s Movement created many opportunities for women that were not available before, but also created many problems that have yet to be resolved, not only for women but also for men. 

What we need is a Men’s Movement. Sure, some say a Men&#039;s Movement exists, and it does to an extent. But it doesn&#039;t have the same urgency as the Women&#039;s Movement. Both entail fighting for the freedom to be ourselves, but women are motivated by a history in which they have been systematically oppressed. Men don&#039;t have that same motivation. In many ways, men don&#039;t believe it benefits them to work toward a society in which both sexes are seen as and treated as equals. 

Unfortunately, many women also don&#039;t believe the Women&#039;s Movement has benefited them. Women who have found themselves sexualized and objectified from a young age, something that was not openly accepted and promoted before the sexual revolution. Women who find themselves working and still being the primary caregivers, whether it is within a marriage or outside a marriage, torn by commitment to themselves and to their children, getting only part of what they fought for: the equitable distribution of outside work (most often without the equitable pay) without the actual equal distribution of responsibilities in the home (read as: Women&#039;s Work). Women who are fighting to make ends meet in a culture where they are not compensated fairly for the work they do either inside or outside the home.

Until a critical mass is reached where both men and women believe equality is more beneficial to them than inequality, we are stuck. And unless a critical mass is reached where both men and women stop subscribing to the stereotypes which limit us from seeing reality and keep us believing it&#039;s &quot;us&quot; or &quot;them,&quot; we&#039;ll keep getting stuck on semantics.

Despite all this, I believe we should keep trying to make a difference, trying to promote equality, trying to create a paradigm in which both women and men are allowed to be true to who they are, what they feel, and what they want, not defined or overly-influenced by culture&#039;s expectations of what it means to be a man, what it means to be a woman.  

We should keep working toward the possibility, as impossible as it may sometimes seem. We create stepping stones with our lives, with the actions we take every day, that move all of us closer to the other side. What may sometimes seem impossible now, will someday be within reach, just as many of the opportunities we take for granted today seemed like an impossibility until people continued to move in the direction of change. 

If we can get over the semantics which feed the stereotypes, if we can view feminism as bell hooks does, as a struggle against sexism, we can move toward that possibility. This year, our democratic candidates for President were a woman and a non-white man. And the Republican candidate had chosen a female running mate. Granted I don’t believe this particular woman candidate is the best candidate for promoting a government that promotes either racial or gender equality, but she is a woman. 

However, just because a woman is a woman, doesn&#039;t mean she will do more to benefit women than a man would. If we make that assumption, we are the ones being sexist. And if we subscribe to bell hook&#039;s definition of feminism as fighting sexism, which I do, it goes against the very core of the beliefs we are fighting for. 

If we are demanding equality, are demanding that we be seen and judged and rewarded based on our individual skills, talents, and actions rather than our gender, then we must also be committed to see, judge and reward others based on their skills, talents, and actions rather than their gender.

Of course I want to see a woman in the White House. I also want to see someone who is not White in the White House. Both are long overdue. But, in the end, we cannot vote based on race or gender without following the same rationale of those who would not vote for someone based on their race or gender. 

We must vote for the candidate we feel has the skills, the talents, the ability to lead our country in the direction we believe we should go in. We must do that by looking at many things: their character, their words, their actions, their focus, their history. We must not do that by voting for, or against, them because of their race or gender. This is the double-edged sword it is so easy to be cut by. 

It is my hope that we will all go to the polls voting for the individual we believe is best suited to the role, regardless of their race or gender and that we will continue to work toward a society in which, someday, neither of these classifications will play a part in deciding whether someone is the right person for the job. It’s my hope that we all continue to take daily actions, continue to create stepping stones for ourselves and for others, based on what we believe is right, not what we are led to believe. It’s my hope that we’ll get over the semantics, get over the stereotypes and focus on what’s real.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As far as I can see, we’re stuck &#8230; the propaganda created &amp; updated to keep both men and women invested in the stereotypical idea that all feminists are angry, man-hating, bra-burning dykes keeps the whole issue of equality polarized, maintaining the &#8220;us&#8221; or &#8220;them&#8221; paradigm we humans hate to admit to, but still invest in so heavily. </p>
<p>The Women&#8217;s Movement created many opportunities for women that were not available before, but also created many problems that have yet to be resolved, not only for women but also for men. </p>
<p>What we need is a Men’s Movement. Sure, some say a Men&#8217;s Movement exists, and it does to an extent. But it doesn&#8217;t have the same urgency as the Women&#8217;s Movement. Both entail fighting for the freedom to be ourselves, but women are motivated by a history in which they have been systematically oppressed. Men don&#8217;t have that same motivation. In many ways, men don&#8217;t believe it benefits them to work toward a society in which both sexes are seen as and treated as equals. </p>
<p>Unfortunately, many women also don&#8217;t believe the Women&#8217;s Movement has benefited them. Women who have found themselves sexualized and objectified from a young age, something that was not openly accepted and promoted before the sexual revolution. Women who find themselves working and still being the primary caregivers, whether it is within a marriage or outside a marriage, torn by commitment to themselves and to their children, getting only part of what they fought for: the equitable distribution of outside work (most often without the equitable pay) without the actual equal distribution of responsibilities in the home (read as: Women&#8217;s Work). Women who are fighting to make ends meet in a culture where they are not compensated fairly for the work they do either inside or outside the home.</p>
<p>Until a critical mass is reached where both men and women believe equality is more beneficial to them than inequality, we are stuck. And unless a critical mass is reached where both men and women stop subscribing to the stereotypes which limit us from seeing reality and keep us believing it&#8217;s &#8220;us&#8221; or &#8220;them,&#8221; we&#8217;ll keep getting stuck on semantics.</p>
<p>Despite all this, I believe we should keep trying to make a difference, trying to promote equality, trying to create a paradigm in which both women and men are allowed to be true to who they are, what they feel, and what they want, not defined or overly-influenced by culture&#8217;s expectations of what it means to be a man, what it means to be a woman.  </p>
<p>We should keep working toward the possibility, as impossible as it may sometimes seem. We create stepping stones with our lives, with the actions we take every day, that move all of us closer to the other side. What may sometimes seem impossible now, will someday be within reach, just as many of the opportunities we take for granted today seemed like an impossibility until people continued to move in the direction of change. </p>
<p>If we can get over the semantics which feed the stereotypes, if we can view feminism as bell hooks does, as a struggle against sexism, we can move toward that possibility. This year, our democratic candidates for President were a woman and a non-white man. And the Republican candidate had chosen a female running mate. Granted I don’t believe this particular woman candidate is the best candidate for promoting a government that promotes either racial or gender equality, but she is a woman. </p>
<p>However, just because a woman is a woman, doesn&#8217;t mean she will do more to benefit women than a man would. If we make that assumption, we are the ones being sexist. And if we subscribe to bell hook&#8217;s definition of feminism as fighting sexism, which I do, it goes against the very core of the beliefs we are fighting for. </p>
<p>If we are demanding equality, are demanding that we be seen and judged and rewarded based on our individual skills, talents, and actions rather than our gender, then we must also be committed to see, judge and reward others based on their skills, talents, and actions rather than their gender.</p>
<p>Of course I want to see a woman in the White House. I also want to see someone who is not White in the White House. Both are long overdue. But, in the end, we cannot vote based on race or gender without following the same rationale of those who would not vote for someone based on their race or gender. </p>
<p>We must vote for the candidate we feel has the skills, the talents, the ability to lead our country in the direction we believe we should go in. We must do that by looking at many things: their character, their words, their actions, their focus, their history. We must not do that by voting for, or against, them because of their race or gender. This is the double-edged sword it is so easy to be cut by. </p>
<p>It is my hope that we will all go to the polls voting for the individual we believe is best suited to the role, regardless of their race or gender and that we will continue to work toward a society in which, someday, neither of these classifications will play a part in deciding whether someone is the right person for the job. It’s my hope that we all continue to take daily actions, continue to create stepping stones for ourselves and for others, based on what we believe is right, not what we are led to believe. It’s my hope that we’ll get over the semantics, get over the stereotypes and focus on what’s real.</p>
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		<title>Comment on I don&#8217;t care if you are pro-choice, guy. by Persephone</title>
		<link>http://feministinguottawa.wordpress.com/i-dont-care-if-you-are-pro-choice-guy/#comment-16</link>
		<dc:creator>Persephone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Aug 2008 21:13:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://feministinguottawa.wordpress.com/?page_id=62#comment-16</guid>
		<description>Now there&#039;s a thought! If male hormonal contraceptives are not a profitable venture for big pharma, and if IUDs are far more invasive and dangerous to future reproductive health than are vasectomies, and if abortions place women at a significant health risk, why not start touting vasectomies as the new contraceptive alternative?! No more worries about broken condoms for people who can&#039;t take the pill, no more struggling to find a suitable contraception solution... just snip!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now there&#8217;s a thought! If male hormonal contraceptives are not a profitable venture for big pharma, and if IUDs are far more invasive and dangerous to future reproductive health than are vasectomies, and if abortions place women at a significant health risk, why not start touting vasectomies as the new contraceptive alternative?! No more worries about broken condoms for people who can&#8217;t take the pill, no more struggling to find a suitable contraception solution&#8230; just snip!</p>
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		<title>Comment on I don&#8217;t care if you are pro-choice, guy. by flookie</title>
		<link>http://feministinguottawa.wordpress.com/i-dont-care-if-you-are-pro-choice-guy/#comment-15</link>
		<dc:creator>flookie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Aug 2008 20:26:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://feministinguottawa.wordpress.com/?page_id=62#comment-15</guid>
		<description>from me to we, re: who has an abortion

hey i aint saying there arent TONS of other cop outs along the process of abortion, FOR SURE there are.

but d&#039;y&#039;see what I&#039;m sayin? Why not do the right thing and never put it on a woman to have to choose abortion?

like, its exactly what you&#039;re saying. somehow, for some strange reason, guys can be amazed that the usual consequences of heterosexual(vaginal-penile) sex is the creation of a fetus. 

i guess im being antagonistic in some ways with my whole campaign for vasectomies, but im trying to shift the debate and ease up the pressure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>from me to we, re: who has an abortion</p>
<p>hey i aint saying there arent TONS of other cop outs along the process of abortion, FOR SURE there are.</p>
<p>but d&#8217;y&#8217;see what I&#8217;m sayin? Why not do the right thing and never put it on a woman to have to choose abortion?</p>
<p>like, its exactly what you&#8217;re saying. somehow, for some strange reason, guys can be amazed that the usual consequences of heterosexual(vaginal-penile) sex is the creation of a fetus. </p>
<p>i guess im being antagonistic in some ways with my whole campaign for vasectomies, but im trying to shift the debate and ease up the pressure.</p>
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		<title>Comment on I don&#8217;t care if you are pro-choice, guy. by He Can Keep His Balls</title>
		<link>http://feministinguottawa.wordpress.com/i-dont-care-if-you-are-pro-choice-guy/#comment-14</link>
		<dc:creator>He Can Keep His Balls</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Aug 2008 16:29:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://feministinguottawa.wordpress.com/?page_id=62#comment-14</guid>
		<description>I think, as much as abortion and pro choice is a cop out for men, that it&#039;s important to discuss, when in a relationship with someone, what you will do in the event that you&#039;d be forced to consider one.

I mean, don&#039;t get me wrong...I do think that it&#039;s important that men realize that they&#039;re part of it...but some men (most men) have a hard time wrapping their head around that fact. Just like paying for and taking hormonal contraceptives is the &quot;woman&#039;s responsibility&quot;, so is abortion. 

Or, so they believe. I disagree. Whatever.

I make a point to discuss it with boyfriends and regular partners. Those I keep around know damn well that they&#039;re coming with me to the clinic. Those who don&#039;t accept or seem to accept that fact are shown the door.

Now, I know...it sucks to have to carry the burden of explaining the birds and the bees and their ramifications to a grown man. But as much as they shouldn&#039;t have to be told, well, most of the time they do. 

So I choose to take that responsibility. I believe it&#039;s part of the choice. The choice to be sexually active, and to make reproductive choices that are right for me.

I don&#039;t want to raise a child (now, and possibly ever), don&#039;t want to put my body through that (if at all, at least not just yet), let alone to give it up for adoption. 

But for the sake of not having to take a girlfriend with me to the clinic, and for the sake of sharing that burden with the person who helped create it, I&#039;ll keep on educating...

If we all did this, would more men start saying &quot;we had an abortion&quot;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think, as much as abortion and pro choice is a cop out for men, that it&#8217;s important to discuss, when in a relationship with someone, what you will do in the event that you&#8217;d be forced to consider one.</p>
<p>I mean, don&#8217;t get me wrong&#8230;I do think that it&#8217;s important that men realize that they&#8217;re part of it&#8230;but some men (most men) have a hard time wrapping their head around that fact. Just like paying for and taking hormonal contraceptives is the &#8220;woman&#8217;s responsibility&#8221;, so is abortion. </p>
<p>Or, so they believe. I disagree. Whatever.</p>
<p>I make a point to discuss it with boyfriends and regular partners. Those I keep around know damn well that they&#8217;re coming with me to the clinic. Those who don&#8217;t accept or seem to accept that fact are shown the door.</p>
<p>Now, I know&#8230;it sucks to have to carry the burden of explaining the birds and the bees and their ramifications to a grown man. But as much as they shouldn&#8217;t have to be told, well, most of the time they do. </p>
<p>So I choose to take that responsibility. I believe it&#8217;s part of the choice. The choice to be sexually active, and to make reproductive choices that are right for me.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t want to raise a child (now, and possibly ever), don&#8217;t want to put my body through that (if at all, at least not just yet), let alone to give it up for adoption. </p>
<p>But for the sake of not having to take a girlfriend with me to the clinic, and for the sake of sharing that burden with the person who helped create it, I&#8217;ll keep on educating&#8230;</p>
<p>If we all did this, would more men start saying &#8220;we had an abortion&#8221;?</p>
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